Would Michael hurt a woman?

Showtime brought us three seasons of this strong television drama, featuring large weekly doses of Jason Isaacs! Find articles, reviews, and viewer comments about Brotherhood--and add your own!

Moderators: thunder, Gillian, Chari910, fruitbat, catloveyes, Helen8, kjshd05, Marie, LadyLucius

Moira
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:00 am

Would Michael hurt a woman?

Post by Moira » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:10 pm

He's barked at women (the lunatic college girl). He's threatened a woman's "slow" brother. But I wonder if Michael has hurt a woman, or ever would?

The episode with his long-lost father explains why Michael is surprisingly polite, even with hints of tenderness, towards females. Being the oldest son, he obviously experinced more than Tommy their father's violence towards his mother. Sons of such fathers can go one of two ways: Become abusers themselves, or become extremely protective. The one woman Michael was violent towards was a "bull dyke" who molested a fifteen year old girl. In Michael's mind, he may have thought he was protecting a helpless female from a woman who was nothing more than another predatory "male."

But if a woman wasn't a victimizer, but was somehow in the way of Michael's goals (whatever they may be), or if she somehow threatened the Caffee family, do you think Michael would physically injure or kill her?

(I confess, I have a fanfic bubbling in my brain, gods help me, and the plot, such as it is, will depend on what I think the answer to this question is.)

User avatar
kjshd05
Data Miner, east coast division
Posts: 6299
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by kjshd05 » Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:02 am

Oh, Moira, that is an excellent question...I've been thinking about an answer....interesting indeed...
I think that would be a big moral decision for Michael...he has been raised to love and respect women (somewhat), but I think if a woman stood in his way of his plans for the hill, she would be a serious threat to him...
Kath is part of his past, and it doesnt seem to bother him that she is married with 2 kids and cheating on her husband to be with him. It's like he almost expects her to. What happened to her while he was gone doesnt matter, and if she can live with the cheating, then she can be with him...Although, you do see him reach out to her when he tells her about being a criminal, then asks her dont go, wanna go to a party? (his bday party given by his mom)...notice the reaction from his "MA" when she sees Kath?
Sorry, got side tracked. I think if a strong willed woman started to interfer with his plans, he might try and take her out at first, she survives, he starts to have more respect for her as their relationship grows and he would try and "win" her over to his side of thinking, or point of view...
She, on the other hand, could help Michael see things in a different light, as they are both trying to improve things for the Hill...
Fascinating plot twist, good luck with your writing...

User avatar
Hilary the Touched
Site Registrant
Posts: 7018
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:11 pm
Location: The Frozen North
Contact:

Post by Hilary the Touched » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:39 pm

I'm not sure I'm convinced.
I think most people (I hope, anyway) have a pretty strict "no violence" clause. Michael's has obviously been strenuously finessed.
As you point out, there has been at least one example--that we know of--of him hurting a woman. (I don't remember--did he kill her?? It was Moe's sister or something, yeah?) And he did put Slow Charlie into irrefutable danger. And he didn't mind killing the very young-looking Hmong drug-dealer--he would doubtless contend that it was to protect "his Hill" from the influence of narcotics, but he happily sells them himself.

Yeah, I think Michael is desperately struggling to maintain his own vision of a Norman Rockwell-type environment, through which he moves like a white knight/Robin Hood. Most of the time, I bet he believes that's what he is. Sometimes it slips--usually his mother is his willing conspirator in this charade, but when her own vision of her universe becomes uncomfortable for her (though not before), she calls Michael on it.

Everybody in this show has a complex agenda of their own, whether they acknowledge it or no, and it's fascinating to see how they clash or overlap with one another's.

User avatar
kjshd05
Data Miner, east coast division
Posts: 6299
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by kjshd05 » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:54 pm

U R correct, Hil, Michael killed Paddy's sister, and that is why he had to leave town. Because she was trying to molest a younger girl.
Michael had Paddy killed so he could return to the Hill after 7 yrs of...
My opinion, being in a foreign jail, which is where he received that vicious scar (but that's another thread...LOL)

Again, that kind of thing to Michael is disgusting, look how he used that against Freddie (when he found out Freddies son was gay).

Definitely, everyone has there own agendas, and the dynamics between the characters is full of twists and turns...Michael loves his kid brother, but considers him part of the problem on the Hill. Tommy says he hates his brother, knows he is a BIG problem for the Hill, yet will not go against him even when Michael tells him its ok, do what you gotta do..
Dont compromise yourself...

Then they both are vying for the attention of their Ma, or is it they are seeking her approval?

Michael's reaction when his own Mother tells him what a low life he is...he cries, because his Ma's approval is important to him...

Sorry, I got off topic....a bit...LOL

User avatar
Marie
I dig animals--sometimes hundreds of feet down
Posts: 6040
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:37 am
Location: Indialantic, FL

Post by Marie » Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:13 am

As Jason himself put it - no one thinks of themselves as bad. But in truth some people are bad. Michael has a "personal code" and thinks that he only hurts or kills people who deserve to be hurt. Of course his presence will make people behave differently then they would if he were not present. IMO, although he is a very interesting albeit damaged individual - Michael is bad and quite capable of hurting or killing a woman. But then again - under the right circumstances - his brother just might be equally capable of hurting or killing - but that's for another discussion!

Cheers,
Marie

Gillian
Site Admin
Posts: 4407
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm

Post by Gillian » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:32 pm

I think he would but only under extreme circumstances. As we've seen, he's extremely protective of women he sees as victims, and that obviously had a lot to do with his own upbringing. Whether his mom actually had to face physical abuse is never really addressed in the series, but my guess would be yes. And seeing as how the ratio of violence by women towards men (or other women) is a lot less prevelent population wise, it's something (with the exception of Paddy's sister) that's a bit of an anomaly in Michael's world. He just doesn't see them as threats.

HOWEVER, should that situation ever arise, I have no doubt he'd deal with it just as quickly as the previous example. Make no mistake.

Moira
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:00 am

Post by Moira » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:50 pm

I'm guessing Michael's father was physically abusive to Rose based on how little provacation he needed to hit "Moira," and in the presence of his adult sons. And by the extremity of Tommy's reaction. Obviously, Tommy was reliving very bad memories. Perhaps he felt he couldn't protect his mother when he was a kid, but now he could protect another female victim of his father.

I can't remember: How old were the boys when their father ran off?

You all make such great points! I'm still undecided whether Michael would kill a woman who wasn't physically endangering his family. I agree that it would depend on the nature of the threat. I'm beginning to think that Michael is capable of killing anyone, with the possible exceptions of Rose and Tommy.

User avatar
kjshd05
Data Miner, east coast division
Posts: 6299
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by kjshd05 » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:18 am

I asked Blake Masters how old the characters where on the show.
He told me Michael 38 and Tommy 36. I think their sister is a bit younger, maybe at least by 10 years...If I remember, and someone correct me if Im wrong, did their father leave when Michael was 12?
It's been a while since I've watched the series. Im staying with that answer...LOL.
I also think in the episode with their estranged father, yes, it was eluded to that their father was physically abusive not only to their mother, but also to them. His father makes the comment "Your stronger than you used to be", or something like that when both Michael and Tommy stop the father after he slapped "Moira"..He was talking to Michael....
In the episode about the movie theater, Michael is asking Tommy to remember how they used to sneek into the movie theater, when their parents where home fighting...I cant remember exactly how he stated that, but it referenced physical abuse...they used the movie theater as an escape from their parents...One of my fav scenes in the entire series is when Michael is paying off his father, and he tells him to sign the papers signing the house over to their mother. He makes the statement "sign little man or I swear before God you will disappear from this earth"...
Char has a wonderful Screen Cap of Michael getting into his car, his father calls out his name, and when Michael looks at him, the loathing and hatred on Jason's face is astounding...It made me gasp, and I will never forget that scene......On an interesting side note, their father eluded to the fact that he wasnt the only one in the relationship who was dysfunctional...I think Rose in her own way was abusive, and manipulative. She still is during the series...But I like her, she is strong and independent...I also have a theory, that their sister's father is someone else. During that entire episode with their father, the sister was never mentioned.....sorry, went rambling again...I gotta make some time and watch this series again...

Gillian
Site Admin
Posts: 4407
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm

Post by Gillian » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:01 am

I also have a theory, that their sister's father is someone else
Interesting. Usually it's Tommy at the center of this discussion. Many are convinced that Judd Fitzgerald is his father, including myself.

Moira
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:00 am

Post by Moira » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:58 pm

I finally looked at the Power Map in the DVD's extras section, and read the brief biographies of the characters on it. Most were very enlightening. For example, that Tommy's aide has political ambitions of his own, and Freddie's right hand man has read 450 romance novels.

But what got me was that Michael had a hankering for the 15 year old girl who was molested by the lesbian he killed. He was in his early 30s at the time.

eeewww... :spew2

Funny how I could still find Michael intriguing when he was just a cold-hearted murderer of gangsters and drug-dealing children, but it took him lusting for an underage girl to put me off him. :heart

Gillian
Site Admin
Posts: 4407
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm

Post by Gillian » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:14 pm

But what got me was that Michael had a hankering for the 15 year old girl who was molested by the lesbian he killed.
Hankering and acting on it are two different things. But I don't own the DVD's so I'm unsure if he ever followed through. Besides, you get a 15 or 16 year walk by a group of men wearing hip hugger jeans and a skimpy tank top and I defy you to point out one that doesn't turn his head.

They're hard-wired that way, the dumb schmucks.

malfoygrandma

Mike and roughstuff

Post by malfoygrandma » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:38 am

:shock: Well, since Mr. Caffee lives by violence, why would we not expect him to be rough? But his approach depends on him! Don't be surprised when he is turned on by a 15 yr old. Those 15 yr olds know exactly what reaction they get from any male under 99, and if they do not get that reaction, they go a step further in showing parts, accenting a----, and anything to get it. But of course we believe they do not know what they are asking for. Come on! At 15, I knew, and I knew how to not go too far! And I was a supergoody girl, no French kissing, no feelies, no close dancing, nothing...I always had an image of having to confess THAT to my priest! I know the 15 yr olds have a different take on life. My daughter, a really fine, good, talented woman, has been married 5, yes 5 times. And her daughter, my pretty granddaughter.... I will not post her ideas about men nor what we in the family know of her adventures in paradise! Well, sorry for confessions! People want what they want, but luckily do not always go for it!

User avatar
kjshd05
Data Miner, east coast division
Posts: 6299
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by kjshd05 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:07 pm

Let's see, according to the shows creator, Blake Masters, Michael is 38 and Tommy 36. (OK, I stated that in a diff post).....So, MC has been gone 7 years, that means he liked a girl of 15, when he was 31.

My speculation, Shannon is the same age as the 15 yr old would have been now...coincidence?

Gillian is right, guys these days dont care what the age, they are looking anyway. And GM is correct, girls at that age know all too well what is going on...

Could Shannon have been the 15yr old girl back then? Interesting...

Was it Jerry Lee Lewis who married his younger cousin?

Sorry, I digressed...LOL.

Ah, Michael, can't wait to see what's up with you THIS season...LOL.

Foodie
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:55 pm
Location: Washington State

Post by Foodie » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:41 pm

I have lurked around here for a long time now, but never thought I had anything interesting enough to contribute to join up. I finally decided to join anyway, so here I am!

I read this post when it first started, and found it very intriguing. Michael definitely lives by a code of ethics, but I think it's sort of like in Pirates of the Caribbean where they're "more like guidelines". I think he can change them on a whim, but he still follows them, so in his mind, he is still living by his code of conduct.

I don't think he'd ever slap a woman around or kill her because he was angry at her, or because he was upset. It just seems to go against everything he's done so far.

If he ever ran into a woman who actually was impeding his plans, I get the feeling that he'd try to persuade her to his way of thinking. Seeing that Michael works outside of the law, somebody working within it isn't going to upset him. The only way he'd be threatened is if she was also working outside of the law. If she was, then he's really going to want to bring her over to his side. He always needs more recruits and connections. He has to know that he is attractive to members of the opposite sex, and I think his ego is large enough to allow him to think he'd be able to woo her to his side. I could even see him being attracted to somebody who was actually powerful enough to impede him.

Well, maybe we'll get to see what happens in that sort of situation in this next season! I can't wait!

-Foodie
:D

Gillian
Site Admin
Posts: 4407
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm

Post by Gillian » Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:35 pm

Michael definitely lives by a code of ethics, but I think it's sort of like in Pirates of the Caribbean where they're "more like guidelines".
For some reason, that absolutely cracked me up.
I don't think he'd ever slap a woman around or kill her because he was angry at her, or because he was upset. It just seems to go against everything he's done so far.
Well he's already done that with the "bull dyke", so there are definite exceptions when someone's crossed what he perceives as the strict line of his ethical code.

But for the most part, yeah, you're right. When trying to acquire the liquor store, his brand of "persuasion" was to get Slow Charlie (as the horrified sister looked on) involved in a nice friendly game of Russian Roulette, his justification being she was ripping off his neighbourhood.

Certainly not as final as killing someone but just as chilling and fucked up.

P.S. Welcome to the board, Foodie!

Post Reply