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Foodie
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Post by Foodie » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:37 am

mariagare wrote:Oh the bittersweetness.

Act 1 in Arkansas, Amendment 2 in Floria and Proposition 8 in California just make it all feel like one step forward, three steps backward.
I was talking about the irony of this with a friend last night. The country votes in the first African American president while other parts vote to take rights away from fellow citizens. It's sad really. But I think we have to take baby steps, and we are getting there.

Proposition 8 passed with only 52% support. Which means 48% of people opposed it. 48% of the population of the state of California is a lot of people, and I think those numbers will continue to increase over time. Give the country a little more time. I hope to see equality for all people in this country in my lifetime. I saw an amazing thing happen last night that only a few years ago seemed impossible. I feel like anything is possible now.

Cissa
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Post by Cissa » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:37 am

I agree - baby steps - nothing really gets done quickly, that's for sure. But as was stated earlier, we're definitely celebrating a victory, and a HUGE one at that!

And as far as Hillary goes, historically speaking men of any color or creed have always advanced before women with the possible exception of indigenous peoples - though I'd have to research that to know for certain. They voted before women, had jobs before women, etc. But hey, not one, but two women were in the running for the White House this time around. Albiet Palin hardly certifies as a member of the fairer sex given her policies on women's rights (in my opinion), but she still has boobs so I guess we have to accept that. :razzlite

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Post by Foodie » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:55 am

I gave Hilary a fair shot when all of this first started. I absolutely believe that a woman should be president and can be one day soon. But I felt that she ran her campaign very much the same way McCain did, divisively and dishonorably. It really turned me away from her and towards Obama, who was running a campaign of togetherness and honor. If she had conducted herself in the same manner, she may just have gotten the nomination. I also really believe that there was a sense of generation shift with this election, and that Clinton represented part of that "older" generation. We wanted new, and that couldn't have happened with her. For me, there was no sexism involved, though I can't answer for other people in this country.

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Post by Sea Lion Woman » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:54 pm

48% is definetely a lot of people. I just don't get the big fuzz about gay marriage. Isn't marriage the union between two people that love each other? I support LGBT rights 100% and I was very sad to see that only 52% supported this. Come on people! open your minds! Gay marriage is just as important and valid as any heterosexual marriage. I have so many gay people in my life (family, friends of the family, friends) that I feel very passionate about this topic and I can't understand why people would oppose to this.

Sorry to ramble on is just, things like this make me mad and frustrated. I would've expected, in the year 2008, that more people would support this. For a heterosexual person, asking a person to marry them is hard. But to a homosexual person, it's like you have to ask the whole world to marry the person you love. It's just not fair!

grannybear
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Post by grannybear » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:44 pm

About all the amendments, propositions etc on the definition of marriage if people would mind their own business and keep their nose out of others, this would be a much better country.

Back to the election. My daughter teaches 6,7 and 8th grades and she says this is the first time in 23 years of teaching she has seen such an interest in a election. She says the kids were really into it and that was the chief subject of conversation. That is the really good news of the election. The interest the younger people of all ages are showing.

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Post by Cissa » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:40 pm

I saw on the news that so many parents turned up with children in tow, and my stepmom was remarking about that in an email to me this afternoon. I didn't see any, but then I was there at 6:45 a.m. When DH (look, I used it!), went at 6:30 p.m., he saw lots of kids helping out as well as many there with their parents. My stepmom commented on good role-modeling, but I just assumed that their parents wanted them to see history in the making.

I remember back in 1980 (?) my mom taking me to the polls to vote for the democrat running against Reagan in what would be his first term. Of course Reagan won, and she never brought me back again! I seem to remember her mumbling under her breath a lot about moving to Canada...

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Post by Gillian » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:30 pm

For a heterosexual person, asking a person to marry them is hard. But to a homosexual person, it's like you have to ask the whole world to marry the person you love. It's just not fair!
Probably one of the best descriptions I've heard of the current situation so far.

What I find funny is that I always thought of California as a liberal place. No one thinks twice about teens getting breast augmentation or taking your poodle in for a bikini wax, but if you say you want to marry your same sex partner the whole place looses it's mind.

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Post by Sea Lion Woman » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:46 pm

Thanks Gillian! *hugs*
And I agree with you 100% about California because I think the same thing. In California you see woman with tits that don't even match their body, fake tans that make girls look like fuckin Oompa Loompas, ugly dyed hair. Those plastic surgeries should be considered self mutilation, honestly...having tits that look like floating devices.
But when you want something fair to happen everyone suddenly become conservatives and go "Oh no, that's insane" "Same sex marriage, please...that's crazy" "The Bible says it's a sin"
Well the Bible also said that the Earth stayed still and now we know that the Earth rotates and it revolves around the sun. The Bible said you should throw stones at women if they cheated (Am I right?, haven't read the Bible in a long time!) The Bible said a lot of things that are not actually true....

Sorry to ramble on, yet again, it's just...it pisses me off!

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mariagare
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Post by mariagare » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:37 pm

You may be surprised that some of the supporters of Proposition 8 actually do want to bring back stoning for adultery:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and- ... ition-8/3/

I wonder if a lot of the things that we just accept would pass if they were subjected to referendum. Pardon my ignorance, but was the right to marry someone of another race or religion originally subjected to a popular vote? I know that Alabama only just overturned the ban on interracial marriages in 2000 but couldn't actually enforce the ban after a Supreme Court decision in 1967 that such bans are unenforceable.

Should the majority be allowed to vote on the rights for the minority?
Last edited by mariagare on Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Angel Tavington » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:43 pm

'The bible says it's a sin'

It's amusing that some people still take the Bible literally and, claiming that the bible says this or that, to me, sounds like just an excuse for homophobia. 'Well, it's God's will that marriage be between one man and one woman'. Where it will end? :roll: Are we really in the 21st century?







~me

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Hilary the Touched
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Post by Hilary the Touched » Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:11 am

I guess I can sort of see the point of this if we're talking marriage (all of a sudden I've got Peter Cook in Princess Bride in my head) as a religious institution. I guess in that sense, religious organizations can do what they want.
But if we're talking marriage in the legal sense, in the sense of civil unions, than back the fuck off. It seems to me to be plainly unconstitutional to allow a portion of the population certain benefits which you deny to others, on the basis of a congenital trait.

How does allowing legal protection to homosexual unions threaten or diminish heterosexual marriage?? It's like saying that because my neighbour Joan bought a new sweater, my wardrobe is under attack. WTF??

Sea Lion Woman
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Post by Sea Lion Woman » Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:02 pm

Unless the sweater your neighbor bought is ferosher than ur wardrobe cuz then GURLL...
Kidding....but yeah I totally agree with you Hilary. But I think we are deviating from the subject a little bit. Let's just hope Obama does something to protect the rights of the LGBT community because they deserve it. They get shit from everybody already.

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Post by Luv » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:52 pm

I haven't been to this board in a hundred years...but I thought I'd pop in and say...YAAAAAAY!!!!!!

I'm in North Carolina and for THIS state to flip to blue...well it was nothing short of miraculous!

Much love to President-elect Obama!

Cissa
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Post by Cissa » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:06 pm

How does allowing legal protection to homosexual unions threaten or diminish heterosexual marriage??
Gee, so silly of me, but here I was thinking that the 60% divorce rate was threatening hetero marriage...

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Helen8
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Post by Helen8 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:07 pm

Scare tactics, which the conservatives and the religious right are so fond of using, work. The lies that were crammed down throats in their media campaigns worked:

"They'll be teaching your children about gay sex."

"Your Kindergarteners will learn that gay marriage is okay, and there's nothing you can do about it if Prop. 8 passes!"

"Churches that won't marry gay couples will lose their nonprofit status."

"You can't be a Catholic and vote against Prop. 8."

And the lies and the hate and the fear-mongering went on and on for months.

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