Interesting post about Canadian healthcare

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Gillian
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Post by Gillian » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:32 pm

Maybe we need to think about this subject. That's all I am saying.
Think about what, exactly? That your best argument against universal health care is a movie called Logan's Run, starring Michael *Fucking* York!? What mental gymnastics did you have to go through to come up with such a convoluted piece of logic?

Let me make this clear, we do not tolerate trolling or threadshitting. In fact, similar behavior in this forum is precisely one of the reasons why we finally had to write some rules.

Now FUCKAWAYOFF!! And don't think we're not logging IP's. Any further posts will be immediately deleted.

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Marie
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Post by Marie » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:21 am

Hmmmm - I really hate trolls - especially on political threads. We may have to consider banning guest posting like the FanZone had to.

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Helen8
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Post by Helen8 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:17 am

Republicans Propagating Falsehoods in Attacks on Health-Care Reform

As a columnist who regularly dishes out sharp criticism, I try not to question the motives of people with whom I don't agree. Today, I'm going to step over that line.

The recent attacks by Republican leaders and their ideological fellow-travelers on the effort to reform the health-care system have been so misleading, so disingenuous, that they could only spring from a cynical effort to gain partisan political advantage. By poisoning the political well, they've given up any pretense of being the loyal opposition. They've become political terrorists, willing to say or do anything to prevent the country from reaching a consensus on one of its most serious domestic problems.

There are lots of valid criticisms that can be made against the health reform plans moving through Congress -- I've made a few myself. But there is no credible way to look at what has been proposed by the president or any congressional committee and conclude that these will result in a government takeover of the health-care system. That is a flat-out lie whose only purpose is to scare the public and stop political conversation.


And that last line sums it up. Scare tactics is how that party works. They get people to vote against their own best interests by using fear.

Rest of article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... newsletter

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Hilary the Touched
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Post by Hilary the Touched » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:52 pm

I hadn't realized--I assumed that conservatives were independently reaching these bizarro conclusions, but I should have known better. That whole euthanasia thing? That wasn't some abstract contemplation--people like Sarah "I'll give up my 15 minutes of Fame when they pry it from my cold dead fingers" actually TOLD them. Palin posted on Facebook some total shit about how her precious baby was threatened by fascist death panels under "Obama's Plan."
SWEET ginger noodles!
As always, we can rely on Jon Stewart to make sense (or at least fun) of the astonishing idiocy:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-a ... nel-debate

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Helen8
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Post by Helen8 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:35 pm

Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow on MSNBC are outing all the malicious disinformation, too.

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Post by Hilary the Touched » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:31 pm

Sadly, the people who really need to see this stuff--like Olbermann's discussion of the failure of the Alaskan state program to assist in keeping elderly people in their own homes and out of hospitals--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HgfwPtxLw

the people who are otherwise believing this rubbish, the people who need it, people who are often un- or underemployed and un-or underinsured, aren't seeing it.

There was a story recently about some protester guy who alleges that he was injured in a scuffle at one of these "town halls." He was joining in declaring that the U.S. should never allow socialized medicine.
Later there were announcements that he was accepting donations to help pay for his emergency medical care, because--you guessed it--he has no insurance.
Even later though there were allegations that his injuries were faked, and his attorney said that he's unemployed, but has insurance through his wife.
But everything's gotta be a soap opera for some people . . .

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Post by grannybear » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:16 pm

Regardless what people say or think, a new health insurance policy is necessary. It may not be perfect but anything is better then the hodge-podge we have now. Also with a public option, which is the only way to keep the Health Insurance Company's under control.

I have Medicare now and I love it. I can't begin to tell you some of the horror story's from the past with just a private company. I'm sure you all have some to tell.

Maybe the plan isn't the best, but it can be fixed. Let's not all condemn it until it's all worked out.

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Helen8
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Post by Helen8 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:05 pm

We all want it. It's the health insurance companies through conservative republican congressmen and women and Faux News that are doing everything possible to defeat Obama's health care plan, by spreading out-and-out lies about the plan and inciting townhall meetings, so honest discussion cannot take place. That's subverting democracy.

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Post by Hilary the Touched » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:27 pm

Sadly, Helen, there are a number of Democrats who are not being especially helpful either, including, if I recall correctly, at least one from North Dakota. From the Washington Post:
"As his committee has taken center stage in the battle over health-care reform, Chairman Baucus (D-Mont.) has emerged as a leading recipient of Senate campaign contributions from the hospitals, insurers and other medical interest groups hoping to shape the legislation to their advantage. Health-related companies and their employees gave Baucus's political committees nearly $1.5 million in 2007 and 2008, when he began holding hearings and making preparations for this year's reform debate."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03363.html

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Helen8
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Post by Helen8 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:56 am

Yes, the Blue Dog Dems do have to remember who voted for them, not the contributors or the hired thugs preventing discourse at townhall meetings.

And in yet another GOTCHA moment, the antihealthcareidiots who never fact-check anything said that were Steven Hawking (who suffers from Lou Gehrigs disease) in England, the NHS would have terminated him. Uh, yeah. Hawking is English, and thanks to the NHS he has received rather good care. He released a statement saying so. More disinformation.

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Gillian
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Post by Gillian » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:50 am

You know, I'm still amazed by the number of people who buy into the outright lies and disinformation concerning universal health care. It's really very simple. In Canada, a portion of your taxes go into the national health care fund, and at the end of the year (in Ontario's case) you pay an additional premium based on your annual income when you file your tax return. In return you are given health care coverage which covers everything from doctor's visits, lab tests, hospital stays, surgery, cancer treatments, etc., etc. Even if you're unemployed or a new immigrant, you're still covered as long as you can prove you're a resident. Now I'm sure some people will be absolutely outraged by this -- "I'll be damned if my tax money goes to pay the bills for some freeloading low-life" -- but the fact is, when you average it out over the entire population, covering their expenses only costs pennies per person. More importantly, should you suddenly find yourself unemployed (a real possibility these days), then you'll be covered too.

We also save a lot of money cutting out the middle-man (insurance companies). Less bureaucracy means less money being funneled away from the people who actually need it (you -- the patient) and going back into providing services, R&D and building new hospitals.

Doctors are also self-employed. They do not answer to insurance companies or HMO's and therefore will NOT deny you any medical treatment based on the ridiculous criteria they lay out. All they do is simply bill the government for services once you've been seen. You never see a bill. Nor will you go bankrupt or be denied treatment. Ever.

It's fair. It's accessible. And it works. For us.

When it comes to health care reform though, the States I'm afraid, will face a long haul. There's a lot of entrenched bureaucracy with their fingers too deep in the pie for this to be resolved any time soon. They're going to use every scare tactic, rumour mongering and lie in the book to secure their interests.

My heart goes out to you guys. I hope Obama can turn this around.

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Post by grannybear » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:56 pm

Gillian--Thanks for such an interesting note on the Canadian system. I'm afraid the U.S. has gone too far down the wrong road to change. People are too afraid of change that they know nothing about but do not take the time to research the proposals.

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Post by warriorprincess » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:41 pm

Well ladies this is one emotive subject. I work for the health service in the U.K. I have to say that despite everyting we are quite lucky.
Although there are those 'visitors' to our country and I use the term loosely, who come over here ,have medical treatment, without cost to themselves and then return to their native home! So go figure!

Love Kathleen

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Gillian
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Post by Gillian » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:43 pm

Don't they have to prove residency first, Kathleen?

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