Dig Series

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thunder
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Re: Dig Series

Post by thunder » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:15 pm

a.p.k. wrote:So are you saying something new? No.
Still wondering what I wrote that made you fly off, since when I read what you wrote and mostly agree with you? well mostly...

I know about Arab expansion in the 7th century, and I know what the Romans did too. The crusaders didn't behave very nicely there either, btw. This conflict didn't start with Abraham, it started with the fall of the Ottoman empire. France and Britain took over the area, but couldn't control the ethnic and the religious conflicts, and then Israel was created, the Arab neighbors attacked and we know the rest... I don't blame Israel that the conflict started in 1948, in case you think that's what I mean. (Just wanted to say that because you seem to understand whatever I write in the worst possible way)
I don't know how to solve this, but I don't think it's a good idea to bring up things that happened 1300 years ago, if there ever is gonna be a solution to this.

I was talking about settlements and why they are, according to international law, illegal. And therefore Israel faces sanctions from several countries. And since LN didn't understand why Israel was the only country that has to give back land when USA doesn't have to give back land they won from the Brits almost 250 years ago (although shouldn't it in that case be given back to the native Americans?), I gave the historical background to why international laws about this came to be and why those rule don't apply today. Most of the history bit wasn't even about Israel, I think you missed my point.

And no, the Palestinians aren't occupiers, unless they demolish houses inside the State of Israel, build Palestinian settlements and claim it for the state of Palestine. Again: international law. When Israel builds settlements outside their State, they are on occupied land, and they are not allowed to build colonies (settlements) for their own people there. according to international law. I didn't make the laws, but I think Israel should follow them. Because they were made for some very good reasons (i.e. ww1 and ww2). Everyone understands that Israel must defend themselves, but building settlements isn't about security. The wall is probably about security, but it would have looked better to the outsiders if Israel didn't somewhere build it on confiscated Palestinian land.

Israel build settlements so they later can claim those areas for themselves, based on their people living there. Excuse the expression "grabbing," if you have a better one. I'd like to hear it. And no, I don't blame only Israel for the failure of the peace process, what give you the idea that I do? What will happen to Abbas when he can't blame his corrupted rule on the occupation? Fatah was founded on the conflict, they know what will happen if there's not a conflict.

Recognition goes both ways though, and hostility goes both ways. Accept and love goes both ways... The Palestinians say it's not fair for Israel to demand recognition from them, because Israel doesn't recognize Palestine, and then they point to the settlements....

I know Ardie's opinions are extreme, I know that Peace Now doesn't speak for everyone, and that there are other ideas about how to solve this. What do you think is the best way, you seem to not like it when I repeat what someone once told me. They are not even my ideas. I'm not an expert on this, I just try to learn. So have you got any ideas?

And no, it won't necessary stop if they find them, because some Palestinians may think Israel went too far to find them, and try to get even. And then Israel will get even, and then Palestinians will get even again, and Israel would get even again. and repeat, I don't know who kidnapped them, but it was someone who wanted things to escalate, and it's a chance it does.
I don't think they'll find them this way, the Palestinians will just move them around, less noise would have been better. But of course the massive military campaign is convincing you that your authorities is doing their best to find them. But of course what do I know?

Since when is this topic only about kidnapped teenagers anyway,? It's called "DIG".

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Re: Dig Series

Post by a.p.k. » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:42 pm

No, this is a break-off of the "Dig" discussion, and it's in the Political Material forum specifically because the discussion in the "Dig" section was not supposed to get political. And that only got political because folks are all over Mr. I's Instagram feeds doing the "you're supporting the occupation!" bit.


For what it's worth, there are disagreements as to the definition and interpretation of the laws that some say make Israeli communities illegal.


Read what I wrote about the Etzion bloc again. And consider the question of the law. It's not the first time that laws were enacted to make whole swaths of land Judenrein in this last 100 years (oh no, and I did say I un-Godwin. So much for that.) That same international law wasn't enforced? Argued for? Paid any attention to? when the Arabs planted their settlements in the West Bank during the British and then the Jordanian occupation. And the Jordanians did make the land Judenrein, for certain. Though the British helped by expelling the Jews from, for one example, Hebron. And if you know anything about Jews, then you would know that saying Jews aren't allowed in Hebron (the Jews' second holiest site) is like saying Arabs aren't allowed in Medina (the Muslims' second holiest site). But that's exactly what first Britain, then Jordan said. And now Jews who have returned to Hebron, and who have had to re-buy Jewish property that had already been Jewish from time immemorial but that had been grabbed (read: stolen) by the Arabs who ran them out ... have to be called settlers and live behind barbed wire in order to live there.


i was pretty calm until you said the words "land grab." That pissed me off. Noting that the boys were kidnapped in Gush Etzion. And again, what I said about Gush Etzion, yeah?

But it''s only Israel that gets accused of "land grabs." Why is that? Oh, right: "international law."



Here's a prime example of how that international law that you think is written in stone and brought down from the mountain is used:

Technically the Western Wall is a settlement. (You've heard of it, I'd imagine, since you've been here; it's on the side of the Temple Mount, the holiest Jewish place, where the Arabs built two mosques on top of the Jewish holy site when they conquered it.) By that same international law. Do you not see how that is a problem, the Western Wall being a settlement? Do you not see why that "international law" might be in dispute, might be disagreed with, might be considered by Israel and Jews to have been very specifically written to push a specific agenda?

Or do you see the Jews at the Western Wall as a land grab? By your lights, it is.





And back to the kidnapped boys: Israel went too far to find them? Maybe they wouldn't have had to use the military at all if the Palestinians would pressure the kidnappers to release them. Though I have to say, considering the intensity with which the search is being conducted, if Israel was going too far, don't you think you'd be seeing headlines of death and mayhem? Right. You would. And you're not. Many arrests, yes. But that's it. The slaughter is in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and still some stray slaughter in Egypt, too. But Israel is going too far? These boys might yet be found alive. But Israel is going too far. ???





For what it's worth, I appreciate Mahmoud Abbas' condemning the kidnapping and committing to help find them. That actually goes a long way toward giving me and a lot of other Israelis hope. As long as Hamas is ascendant, though, all the hope in the world is useless. Because they are committed to nonpeace and they state very plainly and have enshrined in their organizational charter that the only agreement they will ever make with Jews is a hudna, a temporary cease fire.

They don't like Abbas much, either. For what it's worth.

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thunder
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Re: Dig Series

Post by thunder » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:41 pm

I don't think Jews at the Western Wall is land grab. Jerusalem was meant to be an international zone, because its so important to 3 religions. The Jews are absolutely right to be at the Western Wall. Why do you indicate that I mean things that I've never expressed in any way? Maybe Hebron should have been international zone as well? Abraham is just as important to the Muslims.

Why are you using the term "Judenrein"? Nazi Germany was never in the Middle East. Closest they got was El Alamein. Are you referring to the Arab countries wanting to remove Israel from the face of the earth? In that case, say so. Not all anti-semittism is nazism. I understand Israels fear and anger over the attitude from the neighbor countries.

Yes, I know the boys came from a settlement, I don't think anyone was right to harm them in anyway, they are civilians, and kids. Have they found them yet? I'm only suggesting the military campaign may be more successful at fighting Hamas and not finding the boys. Maybe other methods of finding the boys would have been better... Has a large symbol effect, though. I wish they'll find them soon.

And I don't think we'll ever agree on the issue on settlements, we just have to agree to disagree, I guess. I'd like to hear what you think is the solution to the conflict though, because everything I mention apparently isn't acceptable.

Yes, the campaigners on Twitter/Instagram need to stop bugging Jason. I don't know what they think they'll achieve to be honest. He's just an actor. And for the record, I don't support BDS either. I don't see the point. Dialogue is always better than boycott. (I buy whatever oranges I like!)

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Re: Dig Series

Post by a.p.k. » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:54 am

thunder wrote:I don't think Jews at the Western Wall is land grab. Jerusalem was meant to be an international zone, because its so important to 3 religions. The Jews are absolutely right to be at the Western Wall. Why do you indicate that I mean things that I've never expressed in any way? Maybe Hebron should have been international zone as well? Abraham is just as important to the Muslims.
Yes, I know he is. That's why they built a mosque over his burial site (yes, he is their "patriarch" but the other six people in that burial site, the rest of the Jewish patriarchs and matriarchs, have no meaning for Muslims) and then denied Jews access to that site at all for 1,000 years. The Jews were only allowed to the 7th step of the outside of the building. Even under British rule. Until '67, when the Jews liberated the site. The Muslim mosque remained, but the Jews built themselves an entrance. -
thunder wrote:Why are you using the term "Judenrein"? Nazi Germany was never in the Middle East. Closest they got was El Alamein. Are you referring to the Arab countries wanting to remove Israel from the face of the earth? In that case, say so. Not all anti-semittism is nazism. I understand Israels fear and anger over the attitude from the neighbor countries.
Judenrein means without Jews. I used the German word and didn't discuss the Nazis. What's now called the West Bank had had Jews in it since time immemorial until it was ethnically cleansed of Jews, including in half of Jerusalem and in all of Hebron. Ancient communities that predated the birth of Muhammed, much less the conquest by his followers of Judea (which was only named Palestine a hundred years after the death of Jesus), wiped out in the 20th century. In homes that were owned, titled, to the Jews, there are now Arabs. So Jews who owned the land are considered settlers. Arabs who confiscated the Jewish homes and land are not. Why aren't the Arabs in the Jewish homes, who 'land grabbed' Jewish-owned land, illegal settlers?
thunder wrote:Yes, I know the boys came from a settlement, I don't think anyone was right to harm them in anyway, they are civilians, and kids. Have they found them yet? I'm only suggesting the military campaign may be more successful at fighting Hamas and not finding the boys. Maybe other methods of finding the boys would have been better... Has a large symbol effect, though. I wish they'll find them soon.
And you are incorrect. The boys were kidnapped from a road in the West Bank. One of them does live in what is called a settlement. But two of them are not "from" settlements. One is from a West Bank settlement. The other two are from within "Green Line" Israel. (One of them lives a ten-minute drive from me.)

thunder wrote:And I don't think we'll ever agree on the issue on settlements, we just have to agree to disagree, I guess. I'd like to hear what you think is the solution to the conflict though, because everything I mention apparently isn't acceptable.

You haven't mentioned any solution that the Arabs haven't already shot down.

But since you asked ... what do I think is a solution to the conflict?

1. Two states, each state identified as the national home for its people. Just as the Jewish right of return means that Jews have instant citizenship in Israel should they request it (which is what Israel's right of return means) the Arabs should have instant citizenship in Palestine should they request it. The right of return (which is not how Arabs define it and which they insist is a dealbreaker). Borders to be worked out. As per previous agreements, the main settlement blocs would be incorporated into Israel. With land swaps to compensate. As has been offered.

2. A complete cessation of hostilities. And that includes institutionalized educational hostilities as well: Arab school books given to a neutral reviewing party to remove all anti-Semitic references. The Arab children's shows reviewed by a neutral reviewing to remove all anti-Semitic references. The Arabs must be taught coexistence. I frankly don't care that Saudi children are taught that Jews are descended from apes and pigs because Saudi children are a bit of distance away; I would require that my neighbors and their children not be taught to dehumanize me and my children.

3. That Jews be allowed to live in Palestine with complete freedom and civil rights guarantees. (After all, 20% of Israel's population is Arab. The Israeli Supreme Court is 1/3 Arab. Arabs serve in the Israeli Parliament and have been in the Cabinet. They are doctors, lawyers (professions Palestinians are forbidden from in Lebanon, by the way) in Israel. They attend Israeli universities and have complete freedom of movement within Israel. They run their own religious affairs. I would expect that Jews in an independent Palestine would be given the same rights as Arabs in Israel are.

4. Settlements: Arabs with proof that land that they legally owned was confiscated by Jews or Israel would be compensated by Israel. Jews with proof of ownership of land that they legally owned was confiscated by Arabs would be compensated by Arabs (either Palestine or Jordan or Egypt, depending on how those three would work out responsibility).

5. Refugees: Arab refugees would have the right of return .... meaning the right to return to Palestine, their national home, or be compensated. Jewish refugees from Arab lands (not talking about those from Europe/WWII, mind you, but the ones from the rest of the Middle East, virtually all of whom fled to and were absorbed by Israel without any international assistance) would be compensated.

6. Jerusalem: With the historical note of the bizarre-ness that Arabs now want a capital in Jerusalem, noting that they have never ever had a capital in Jerusalem. The capital of the region during Arab and Ottoman rule, before the Jews sought independence, was Ramle (which is in central Israel; I am not referring to Ramallah, currently the capital of the Palestinian Authority, which is in the West Bank). Now the Arabs want a capital in Jerusalem. And when the world partitioned the land in 1947, it did intend to internationalize the Old City of Jerusalem, a plan that was not carried out because Jordan conquered it and occupied it for the next 20 years. Well, I could go on into the reasons why the Jews are wary of this. If you like, I'll be happy to rant. But the point is, there has already been an offer on the table of a division of Jerusalem, where the Arab neighborhoods would be the capital of independent Palestine, and the Jewish neighborhoods would remain the capital of Israel, as the city is already. It will be a hard thing to deal with, and I'd imagine the municipality would have to be split, but there you go. A

With, of course, appropriate security guarantees for Jewish sites in what would be an Arab-controlled Jerusalem. As an example, whenever we have a funeral on the Mt. of Olives (the oldest continuously operated Jewish cemetery in the world .... with the exception, of course, that 20-year gap of Jordanian occupation from '48 to '67) we have to have armed guards with us, and I know people who've been shot at in the cemetery. It's a fact of life till now. Now, is that going to continue in an Arab capital city of East Jerusalem?


thunder wrote:And I don't think we'll ever agree on the issue on settlements, we just have to agree to disagree, I guess. I'd like to hear what you think is the solution to the conflict though, because everything I mention apparently isn't acceptable.

Yes, the campaigners on Twitter/Instagram need to stop bugging Jason. I don't know what they think they'll achieve to be honest. He's just an actor. And for the record, I don't support BDS either. I don't see the point. Dialogue is always better than boycott. (I buy whatever oranges I like!)
You never said why you believe that the Western Wall is not a settlement in your view. What makes it different than, say, Beit El? Or Hebron? I'm curious.

But now that I've typed all that, you haven't suggested what you think is the solution to the conflict.

My problem w/ BDS is that they're hypocrites. They don't give a damn about justice unless there are Israelis involved. Personally? I vote with my wallet every day, buying whatever oranges or anything else I like as well. Am a fan of fair trade and the like.

And it would be nice if they'd leave Mr. I alone, agreed. He tries very, very hard to be very middle-of-the-road and correct in his comments, throughout his career. He never mentions an Israeli crew member on a film without mentioning a Palestinian crew member, bending over backwards not to offend. Which is very nice but must be exhausting. The problem isn't that "he's just an actor." It's that what they post is lie and dangerous lie, at that (the "genocide" comments, as one example).




/rant

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Re: Dig Series

Post by LadySekhmet » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:10 am

So just a curious question here. What about the Palestinian Christians? They have been marginalized as well. Their claim -if we are going to base this on religion alone- is older than the Palestinian Arabs and they were not "invaders", as Christianity was essentially born in the Middle East in modern Israel. Egypt, Syria et al. Yet, they are also being dislocated by land confiscation by the Jewish Settlements. Although in some ways, I suppose, they are currently being marginalized in all Middle Eastern contries, except perhaps Jordan & Lebanon.

Just curious- that's all. One very rarely hears about them because the focus is so intensely on Palestinian Arabs v Israelis.

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Re: Dig Series

Post by thunder » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:02 pm

Many Christian Palestinians are emigrating to Europe or America. Christian communities in Europe or America support the Christian schools, so Christian Palestinians often have higher education and for the most part better jobs than the Muslims. The Christian schools also have some Muslim students, but most Muslim students go to other schools, where the education isn’t that much adapted to the working market in Europe and America. (a retired headmaster of a Christian School in Bethlehem told me this) It’s a problem for Christians living in the West Bank (most of them lives in Bethlehem) to visit holy places elsewhere i. e. The Holy Sepulchre, because if they want to travel to Jerusalem, they need a special permit, and it’s hard to get. So some of the Christians we talked to had only been able to travel there once in their lives, even if they only live 10 km away. This Easter, a lot of them were denied access to the Holy Sepulchre. Israel said it was because of crowd control. It may be true, but the Christian Palestinians will never believe that it was the real reason.

The emigration of Christians from Bethlehem to Europe and America has been 9 percent since 2000. Quite a lot of them moves to other countries to get away from the situation. Their relationship with the Palestinian Muslims is a bit two sided. On one side, our guide who’s a Palestinian Christian seemed to have the most problem about being denied access to holy sites, and the checkpoints, the Israeli presence on the West Bank in general rather than accepting Muslims. But he made remarks about their view on women, and how to raise children etc, that he thought was wrong. The Palestinian authorities is quite secular, and it didn't look like he thought it was a problem that they aren't a Christian government.

a.p.k.:
Sorry I answer a question with 10 more questions, I have more or less qualified opinions, but I like to debate because I learn from it.
Jerusalem: I don’t understand why Palestinians want it for their capital, but I think it may have something to do with the negotiations. If they are forced to “give up” Jerusalem, they can demand more of another thing. I used to be a Union leader, and I know that the demands are much higher than what you expect to get in the end. It’s a negotiation technique. (i.e. “We have given you this, now you need to give something to us”)

The difference between a settlement and a Holy Site? I’ve been at the Western Wall,. Some probably spend a lot of time there, since it’s such an important place, but I didn’t get the impression that someone was living there. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Hebron: It was meant from the founding of the state of Israel in 1948 that Jews should have access to the Western Wall. Hebron isn’t inside the area that was given to the State of Israel. See the map, it doesn’t show Hebron marked on it, but you know where it is. http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/aboutisrael/m ... 0plan.aspx.

But because of the military presence in Hebron, Jews have been able to move back there and build settlements. When those settlers build memorials for terrorists that walks into the mosque and kill 29 praying Muslims during the Friday prayer (Forgot how many injured), even if I can understand that they are frustrated that they don’t have access to the tomb of the Patriarch, I don’t find them very sympathetic. It must be hard to live behind barbed wire, surrounded by enemies, needing military protection, but they have chosen that themselves.

So the difference: Jerusalem was meant to be open to anyone. Hebron was meant to belong to the future state of Palestine. (Maybe it should have been open to all as well). So the military presence in Jerusalem is protecting the right Israel have. Military presence in Hebron is protecting the right Israel think they should have. Maybe they should have it, but it has to be negotiated first. Can’t just go and take it. (Just my opinion, but I hope I made it clearer now)

Yes, I’ve been visiting the mosque and the synagogue in Hebron. Because I’m a Christian I’m allowed into both parts of it. (Funny how my atheist colleagues were very quickly to answer “Christian!” when the soldiers asked them about religion…)

How I think it should be solved: I don’t know. This is what I’m thinking, but it’s probably more questions than answers. I thought most of your ideas were pretty constructive.

I can’t see a one state solution work, since ethnicity and religion is so important to both sides. So a two state solution is probably the best.

First of all: Both people needs to be treated equally. Same rights for both people. Same responsibility for both people to make peace and to make it work.

Since 1948 there has been wars, and the borders aren't what they used to be. So the borders has to be negotiated again. Don’t ask me how to split it up. Israel and Egypt managed to make peace with Sinai given back to Egypt, and Egypt acknowledging Israel and stop being aggressive. I think Israel will have to give up some of the land they have occupied (during the different wars) Palestine can’t exist as an independent state with the A- and B-zones on the West Bank and Gaza. It’s about controlling resources and having a sustainable economy to function as a state.

The use of history as an argument to claim rights to an area isn't very constructive. There has to be drawn a line, in rather modern history, I’d say. Everyone argues who was there first and who has the right to live there. If they set a date, it’s at least the same for everyone. Don’t ask me when. But I’m thinking that dead people are dead, they can’t claim anything…

The same rules need to apply to both people. If Jews are going to move back onto homes they were chased out of, so should Palestinians. If Palestinians should be able to move back to their homes, so should Jews. If this isn’t going to work, they will have to compromise. So maybe some Jews can’t go back, maybe some Palestinians can’t go back. It’s about trying to avoid future conflicts. If the two people learn to live in peace, there won’t be a problem. But one can’t kick out a family from their house because one’s old relatives lived there centuries ago. It’s about how the situation is today, and how to make it work.

Jerusalem: What’s wrong with Tel Aviv and Ramallah for capital cities? I never was in Ramallah, but Tel Aviv can’t have been more than 1 hour away? Ramallah can’t be longer… Big deal what city is the capital, isn’t peace more important? I understand Israel’s claim to make it capital more than Palestine, but his is just symbolic. Same rules applies to both sides again. Jerusalem can’t be the capital of any country.

Both sides need to acknowledge the pain they have given the other side, and take responsibility for it. Truth commissions may be the way to go to put the past behind. Not sure about how this should work. But Israelis and Palestinians have to find a way to forgive each other, maybe knowing the truth, and speak to the person or the group behind it would help. It worked in a way in South Africa, but the situation was different there. Not sure it will work here.

Will Israel trust Palestine if they get their own army? Maybe there has to be an international force protecting Palestine. Palestinians don’t trust the IDF, and won't accept that they should have military control.

And as you said, children has to be taught tolerance. An that goes for both sides.

As for the disappeared teens. Have they found them yet? How can I say if Israel went too far finding them when they haven’t found them yet? If this turn out to be successful, it will be hard to criticize anyone. But it looks like to me they are rather clueless. They've killed a Palestinian stone throwing teen, though, so I guess they are one down two to go. And in case you wondered. I don’t think kidnapping a Jewish teens is worse than killing Palestinian ones – even if they throw rocks. To me, people are people. BTW, all we still know is that three Jewish teenagers have disappeared.

About the Tweeters, I haven't really seen anyone tweet him something that falls outside "freedom of speech", but I haven't had time reading a lot of it, so maybe I missed the worst. Some think Israel's politics towards Palestinians is genocide, it's not illegal to say that. They are entitled their opinion. Just don't understand what they expect him to do, or if they think it's helpful tweeting him 10 times per day. He can block them if he wants....

Don’t know if I answered all your questions, I probably didn't. If you still have questions for me – feel free to ask.

ln419

Re: Dig Series

Post by ln419 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:46 pm

T, I'm only going to touch on the "freedom of speech" and tweets issue as it applies to Jason and other celebrities. There is one who attacks all celebs who go to Israel (ie The Stones, Sir Pat Stew..musicians to actors and everyone inbetween) and harass them to tears on their sites on a daily basis, sometimes twice/day. If you google this particular person, she's been doing it for years (and by her name, I'm guessing she's Jewish), but very pro Palestinian. Fine, she's entitled to her opinion, but in the beginning THOSE people were really harassing him, and you could tell, NBC was letting him hang alone. Hence my urging that we write positive non political stuff on his (well, now apparently defunct instagram, although...Jason, if you're reading this, I think it's probably safe to re-start that now, or at least try), LOTS of people have tweeted him very + things and hopefully pushed back the anger and hate away from him. Gratefully, he has a very strong and loyal fan base, including the entire HP fandom (bigger than THAT, it doesn't come!) Perhaps you didn't find them offensive, and we'll never be on the same side of the fence of the debate, and we'll have to be ok with that and move on, because it's NOT you and I arguing...WE are both "Isaacettes" who don't want to see him slammed. We just don't see equally on who is doing the slamming or why. But I DID read ALL the tweets, and who was re-tweeting what over and over. I'm just happy they've stopped and it's turned back into HIS/fan twitter site.

What's happening in Israel is a different matter in it's entirety, and seemingly getting worse each time I open my eyes in the morning. I just pray those boys show up well somewhere VERY soon. ~ellen

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Re: Dig Series

Post by thunder » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:55 pm

Using one's freedom of speech is one thing, Harassing people is another and is unacceptable. It looked like it was nothing more than he could handle. They went at it again yesterday, as they will throughout the shoot and probably release. But they have the right to protest though, you have the right to disagree with them.

It should be NBC's problem, not Jason's...

ln419

Re: Dig Series

Post by ln419 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:50 am

And I will agree with you wholeheartedly there...only HE is the Jew AND THEIR STAR, (and I'm betting NBC couldn't really care less, THEIR advice wasn't well thought through). As I see it, it's only been us who have thrown him our support so what they're tweeting is so small (in numbers) compared to the tons of tweets he's getting from fans. I'd like to think THAT helped get him over the hump to start tweeting/instagramming again (per their wishes). But yes, they absolutely have the right to tweet their opinions and thoughts, and I don't have to agree with them, correct! ~ellen

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Re: Dig Series

Post by thunder » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:30 am

Based on what I've gathered about the story so far, I can't see how this is supporting the occupation at all. Looks like to me it's about a Christian conspiracy, and since it's about archeology and it happens in Jerusalem, they would film in archeological sites in Jerusalem.

The only thing they can and will fuel on is NBC's deal with the Israeli government. If NBC wanted to avoid this turning political, they shouldn't have made the deal. And maybe "told the truth" about the filming locations. And now they sit back and let JI take the blow...

Activist groups will always try to get attention by picking targets that can give them some publicity. And a celebrity is an easy target that will give them attention.

ln419

Re: Dig Series

Post by ln419 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:01 pm

Yes, that is absolutely correct. 100%. It IS a Christian story about Christian History and lore...which TOOK PLACE IN JERUSALEM. Period, end of story. It has nothing to do with the state of affairs today (well it does, because the Palestinians claim THAT part of J'lem as theirs, so round and round the circle we go "a circle has no beginning and no ending" HP). Israel wants it to be perceived 1 way and the Palestinians another - THERE'S THE RUB. For MY part personally, I'm glad Jason blocked their tweets. I'm sorry they're upset by it, but I think it saved him a lot of aggravation, and probably helps keep him focused on his job at hand. He shouldn't have to be a politician there, unless he chooses THAT to be his JOB. Far as I can tell, he hasn't given us his job as a storyteller either in front of, or behind the camera. Plus he's doing a great job being a virtual 'tour guide' on instagram again. I just continue to hope and pray the arson fires stop, the boys are returned, DIG is allowed to shoot in Yehudah and Shomron (and they might have more problems THERE than in J'lem), especially with the IDF continuing their search in that area more intensively. And it's Ramadan. It IS a complicated little place, the place SO many call home. ~ellen

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Re: Dig Series

Post by wolfsaver » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:06 pm

Tragic news-bodies of teens found. This is not good.

ln419

Re: Filming begins

Post by ln419 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:53 pm

I realize that I don't know if this should be HERE or in the political box, but I'm putting it HERE b/c I don't yet know if Episode 2 will be shot in J'lem or in Judea/Semeriah. Since the 3 boys were killed last night we don't know what the dynamics of the land will soon look like. I KNOW the dynamics of the show will be affected in one way or another, but the public at large probably won't be aware. I know, a.p.k knows, Jason knows...but unless we get an email, we probably won't get an 'official' word. There will be blood (more than from the car accident on French Hill on his head). Much, much more. Baruch Dayan HaEmet - Blessed is The True Judge. ~ellen :bawl

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thunder
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Re: Filming begins

Post by thunder » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:11 pm

Wolfesaver: No, not at all.

So tragic. Let's hope it doesn't escalate...

ln419

Re: Dig Series

Post by ln419 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:49 pm

and sadly, here we are. 15 seconds to get to a bomb shelter, "it isn't long my pretty, it isn't long"...~ellen nuke.gif

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