The Patriot
Moderators: thunder, fruitbat, Chari910, Marie, Helen8, Gillian, kjshd05, catloveyes
I don’t know if this book has been mentioned up thread, but I discovered it on my Chapters wishlist and added it to my last order: The Lives Of Banastre Tarleton And Mary Robinson.
Without giving too much away in case anyone else has this on her to-read list, here are my thoughts.
Most chapters focussed on one or the other, Banastre or Mary. His early chapters, (it seemed like much of the book) dealt with his military campaigns in the revolutionary war. I skipped over them, frankly. (My sister noted how laboured my reading of this was and kept asking if I had given it up yet. Perhaps it wasn’t the best choice for a vacation read.
) In some cases, a battle or situation was described after which the author wrote, “Perhaps Tarleton was there.” I felt that was cheating, although I suppose those passages may have served the function of giving the context of the times.
Tarleton was despised in the colonies/US but considered a hero in England, which makes sense. Among the things I learned, he fought (politically, not militarily) against
Wilberforce’s struggle to abolish the slave trade. The charmer. It also mentions an early friendship with
John Graves Simcoe. This interested me personally as Simcoe later became the first Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada, now the province of Ontario. As LG, Simcoe outlawed slavery in Upper Canada. Today, (literally, today, the first Monday in August) there is a civic holiday in Canada, known in Toronto as “Simcoe Day”.
Mary’s chapters actually interested me more as I had read a bio of the
Duchess of Devonshire and was somewhat familiar with that period in history and recognised many of the famous names.
One last, pernickety criticism; the use of exclamation marks seemed a little juvenile for a biography!
My recommendation, in short; don’t bother.
Note: Obviously I was interested in this book as Tarleton is said to be the inspiration for Tavvy. Another book, which arrived in the same order from Chapters, was
The Blair Years
Campbell is said to be the inspiration for Malcolm Tucker, my favourite character from The Thick of It
This one was definitely not vacation reading.
Without giving too much away in case anyone else has this on her to-read list, here are my thoughts.
Most chapters focussed on one or the other, Banastre or Mary. His early chapters, (it seemed like much of the book) dealt with his military campaigns in the revolutionary war. I skipped over them, frankly. (My sister noted how laboured my reading of this was and kept asking if I had given it up yet. Perhaps it wasn’t the best choice for a vacation read.
) In some cases, a battle or situation was described after which the author wrote, “Perhaps Tarleton was there.” I felt that was cheating, although I suppose those passages may have served the function of giving the context of the times. Tarleton was despised in the colonies/US but considered a hero in England, which makes sense. Among the things I learned, he fought (politically, not militarily) against
Wilberforce’s struggle to abolish the slave trade. The charmer. It also mentions an early friendship with
John Graves Simcoe. This interested me personally as Simcoe later became the first Lieutenant Governor of Upper Canada, now the province of Ontario. As LG, Simcoe outlawed slavery in Upper Canada. Today, (literally, today, the first Monday in August) there is a civic holiday in Canada, known in Toronto as “Simcoe Day”.
Mary’s chapters actually interested me more as I had read a bio of the
Duchess of Devonshire and was somewhat familiar with that period in history and recognised many of the famous names.
One last, pernickety criticism; the use of exclamation marks seemed a little juvenile for a biography!
My recommendation, in short; don’t bother.
Note: Obviously I was interested in this book as Tarleton is said to be the inspiration for Tavvy. Another book, which arrived in the same order from Chapters, was
The Blair Years
Campbell is said to be the inspiration for Malcolm Tucker, my favourite character from The Thick of It
This one was definitely not vacation reading.
-
Angel Tavington
- Posts: 4968
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:01 pm
- Location: Col. Tavington's tent
- Contact:
-
Hilary the Touched
- Site Registrant
- Posts: 7197
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:11 pm
- Location: The Frozen North
- Contact:
Fruitbat, goodonyer for completing the slog!
As for his defense of slavery, it's not really surprising--he served many years, I think, as MP for Liverpool--an important port which relied financially on the slave trade. His constituents stood to lose a great deal if slavery were outlawed.
I'll say--especially since I suspect there's pretty decent documentation for actions in which he DID participate. He wasn't shy about tooting his own horn; I have a London newspaper dated 1778, I think, which quotes a dispatch from him. In it he does mention burning civilian buildings (though never occupied churches!!), because there were 'insurgents' using them--he blamed the Rebels for this behaviour.In some cases, a battle or situation was described after which the author wrote, “Perhaps Tarleton was there.” I felt that was cheating
As for his defense of slavery, it's not really surprising--he served many years, I think, as MP for Liverpool--an important port which relied financially on the slave trade. His constituents stood to lose a great deal if slavery were outlawed.
Re: The Patriot
Let's see, this was one of the first movies where I saw Jason, at least in a major lead role. Honestly, the entire movie had me laughing, crying, etc, so it was very hard to process stuff. In a summer where the other huge movie that came out was Gladiator, it's not really surprising those are really the only two I remember. I own them both actually. I bought The Patriot first, it was actually my first DVD purchase, haha. (I also really love movies about that time period, both the Revolutionary War and in general.)
It's one of those movies that have a weird place for me. At first, I was so shocked by what Tavington did that I was kind of baffled, but at the same time, that's kind of the angle they wanted to go at. I was also kind of disappointed he was the baddie, but at the same time, who cares? Jason totally stole the show, or I probably wouldn't even own it anymore. My sister and I both really love that movie, and used to watch it before we both moved out. It's one of those late night 'relaxing' movies for me now, unless I end up rewinding all the good parts, then it turns into the late night stay up until 3 or 4 am parties...
I'm kind of desensitized to the brutality of it now, and spend most of the time watching the lighting techniques and giggling when Tavvy is on screen.
Monday night, I convinced my dad to watch it with me again. He hasn't seen it probably since the DVD came out originally, and after threatening him with Shining Through, he finally relented.
I was, of course, in my usual state of 
and then he says "Wow, the guy playing the bad guy is REALLY good at being a bad guy." I got dead quiet like oh crap REGROUP REGROUP, hahaha. (He likes to give me loads of crap about actor crushes, haha).
Interesting little tidbit, the little girl in the beginning who plays Susan, the youngest daughter, looks EXACTLY like my little sister did when she was very young. It was CREEPY and the first time she saw it, she was like holy crap!!!
And also incidentally, I could SWEAR that "Cannonball Guy" is at Cowpens. I was watching the other night and made a point to see if that was who I thought it was, at least as appearances go, and it HAD to be him.
It's one of those movies that have a weird place for me. At first, I was so shocked by what Tavington did that I was kind of baffled, but at the same time, that's kind of the angle they wanted to go at. I was also kind of disappointed he was the baddie, but at the same time, who cares? Jason totally stole the show, or I probably wouldn't even own it anymore. My sister and I both really love that movie, and used to watch it before we both moved out. It's one of those late night 'relaxing' movies for me now, unless I end up rewinding all the good parts, then it turns into the late night stay up until 3 or 4 am parties...
I'm kind of desensitized to the brutality of it now, and spend most of the time watching the lighting techniques and giggling when Tavvy is on screen.
Monday night, I convinced my dad to watch it with me again. He hasn't seen it probably since the DVD came out originally, and after threatening him with Shining Through, he finally relented.
I was, of course, in my usual state of and then he says "Wow, the guy playing the bad guy is REALLY good at being a bad guy." I got dead quiet like oh crap REGROUP REGROUP, hahaha. (He likes to give me loads of crap about actor crushes, haha).Interesting little tidbit, the little girl in the beginning who plays Susan, the youngest daughter, looks EXACTLY like my little sister did when she was very young. It was CREEPY and the first time she saw it, she was like holy crap!!!
And also incidentally, I could SWEAR that "Cannonball Guy" is at Cowpens. I was watching the other night and made a point to see if that was who I thought it was, at least as appearances go, and it HAD to be him.
-
Angel Tavington
- Posts: 4968
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:01 pm
- Location: Col. Tavington's tent
- Contact:
Re: The Patriot
Tavington's brutality shocked me ar first but after seeing this movie a few times I came to the conclusion that he did what he did simply because he believed he was acting right. And now I ask: is there morality in the context of war? If you look at the bigger picture and suspend your judgment you will perceive things differently.
~me
~me
Re: The Patriot
Tavington was fighting for many things-the Crown, restoration of his reputation, and hopefully rewards of his own. He had nothing left back in England. And toward the end, Cornwallis made it clear that he wanted Martin any way he could get him. That gave Tav the incentive to do what he had to do.
Re: The Patriot
Very well said. That and his brutality is just a war removed from Benjamin's own actions, which were as systematic and disgusting, actually really worse. That part is one I really would rather wasn't in the movie honestly. It's like ok Mr. Stumpersons, you have your Wayne's World Oscar Clip moments, your 'I really want to be in a slasher movie' moments and everything else. I'd vote pulling that scene and putting "Wait for my Order" back in so we can have more fluffy shirt/loose hair goodness.Angel Tavington wrote:Tavington's brutality shocked me ar first but after seeing this movie a few times I came to the conclusion that he did what he did simply because he believed he was acting right. And now I ask: is there morality in the context of war? If you look at the bigger picture and suspend your judgment you will perceive things differently.
~me
I really wish DVDs came with a programmable scene feature... Oooooh man I would have fun with that.
And really it boils down to this: War makes monsters of the most ordinary of people, no matter when or where it occurs...
-
Angel Tavington
- Posts: 4968
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:01 pm
- Location: Col. Tavington's tent
- Contact:
Re: The Patriot
Yeah I think in many ways war is like any other survival situation, it brings out your necessary instincts and agression.And really it boils down to this: War makes monsters of the most ordinary of people, no matter when or where it occurs...
LOL!!I really wish DVDs came with a programmable scene feature... Oooooh man I would have fun with that.
~me
Re: The Patriot
I'm sure that isn't too far away. It'd be a much better investment than 3D tv, that's for sure.
Of course, I'd probably drive people crazy like well, see actually, Tavington was the hero, and he took care of business.
I'd get looks like
Of course, I'd probably drive people crazy like well, see actually, Tavington was the hero, and he took care of business.
I'd get looks like
-
Angel Tavington
- Posts: 4968
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:01 pm
- Location: Col. Tavington's tent
- Contact:
Re: The Patriot
We all see Tavvy as the hero ;)
I mean, Jason is the star of the movie, forget about Mel Gibson!
~me
I mean, Jason is the star of the movie, forget about Mel Gibson!
~me